Yeah I'm the guy that has to pull out all the stops just to keep any size. But I do like a little arm training whether or not my arms are big. I don't think a person that has been training for awhile can really add anymore size at an older age. But then again I could be wrong.

In addition to one's genetic potential, I believe it also depends on what a person wants to accomplish, or more specifically, what they are satisfied with.

Someone with good genetic potential for arm growth could build a respectable set of arms from the basic compound lifts (say for instance, a solid 16 or 17" arms) and be satisfied with that (even though the same individual could have achieved an 18-19+ inch arm if they put in direct arm work). Someone with less than ideal arm growth potential, by contrast, may need to pull out all the stops to hit a 15-16" arm).

When I was younger, I was heavily influenced by the Hard Gainer/consolidated training methods and was convinced that curls and triceps exercise were not only unnecessarily, but counterproductive. My arms became muscular for sure, but they were about an inch or so smaller than they are now, despite being at a higher body weight, and not nearly as developed.

Michael - what you just said dovetails what I've seen and experienced. There are people who can get very good arm and shoulder development from basic compound exercises but they are the exceptions rather than the rule. They have the muscle attachments and leverages that allow them to do this.

You pretty much do your own thing, which I commend, and like to see what others have to say to compare. Me personally, I wasted too much training time over the years following the opinionated advice of those who claimed to have all the answers. That is why these days I tune out the guys who claim their way is the only way.

Yeah I agree John. I have got roasted by some people for saying this stuff. It's just like some people say that all you need for shoulders is presses or you don't need ab work. Everyone has a different opinion and most are experts on what works best for everyone.

I've seen somewhere, someone said all you need to do for upper body is chins and dips. Maybe, I just don't feel my arms and shoulders working in these movements. This is just my opinion but the arms are smaller muscles. My opinion, if you're doing these movements right the bigger muscles are going to take the brunt of the movement. So the smaller muscles, for me, can't get enough from these exercises. But again everyone is different.

Michael

I pretty much have had the exact same experience as you. My arms (which are never as big as I want them to be) always respond the best when I include direct isolation work for them. I'm all for including arm-centric compound moves, but in my experience, nothing produces the same results as when I include curls and extensions.

Also like you, I am more of a torso puller and pusher. My chest and back respond great to push-ups, pull-ups and dips. While the arms are still involved and benefit from these exercises, they just don't seem to be enough to fully optimize their development.

On an related note, I remember reading an article where someone performed EMG studies on various movements. What I found interesting, was that with pull-ups, the author tested and compared using the mind-muscle connection on the back muscles vs. mind-muscle on the arms. The increase in back--focused mind-muscle connection enhanced the back involvement during pull-ups, but there were minimal (if any) change in biceps involvement between the two comparisons. In other words, the biceps are engaged fully, regardless of how one focuses their effort during the movement (at least in this particular study.

So while I'm a big believer in employing the mind-muscle connection, I personally do not believe that it is enough to adequately target the arms during compound movements.

Interesting and good thread. I still have a "like new" 1960's set of a Whitely Steel Cable; Chest Expander set. I prefer a Isometric Exerciser or Isometric/VRT exercise.

That's good Greg! My opinion is that a combination of things work better than just trying to be pure to a system. Everyone that does their exercise has to like it to stick to it. The chest expander really helped me strength and rehab my shoulder after my operation. Alot of things work but what's important is the practioner's opinion of what they are doing. I like cables for arms and shoulders sometimes.

Michael - I think that was the big weakness, at least for me with pushup heavy workouts. You didn't really hit the smaller muscles adequately. BTW - I am really enjoying the steel expander set I bought. I keep it pretty simple and do the exercises after pull-ups and push-ups, but it has been a nice change. I never got a lot out of expanders in years gone by, but I never combined them with bodyweight upper body exercises.

Bob, Lol, I'm lost but I'm glad You like them. I know we don't always agree but You are a inspiring person to me. You're a very solidly built person so what You do works.

Greg I just tend to use the bigger muscles on compound movements like push ups, dips, pull ups and chins. These are my basic movents now for chest and back. I like doing Wall Triceps Extensions, underhand tricep pulldowns with cables, and sometimes other stuff for triceps. Biceps I like doing inclined cable curls, concentration cable curls off my knee, and DB curls with tension. I like the pump and feel my arms look better and feel stronger.

It depends on your insertion point and limb length. The longer the muscles in relationship to your bones, the less you need direct arm work. I've always gotten a certain development from bench presses (in times gone by) and pushups, but to get the high horshoe shape I have to have more direct arm work. Biceps is similar. With short biceps I have to work the angle of pull.

Factually, almost all voluntary co-contraction self-resistance exercises are compound ones because of tension of muscle antagonists and unintentional/involuntary co-activation of other muscle groups. Thus, they give complex body loading. That is why I love these exercises. I save a lot of time.