John,

For ~10 years, my workout consists of only self-resistance exercises. In the beginning, I used Atlas'dynamic tension then moved to co-contraction exercises like DVR/VRT. Last year, I use only dynamic and sometimes isometric self-resistance exercises with a stick. I've described my dynamic exercises for the upper body muscles in this thread (see my post on p. 2). Periodically, I switch to multipoint isometric performance of these exercises. I believe that this "periodization" helps to reach higher muscle tension in dynamic exercises. You can easy design any exercises for other body muscles, basing on this principle of opposite tension (just a little fantasy). If you apply sufficient muscle tension (70-90% of max), you certainly will get excellent results. Good luck.

P.S. To train some muscles, which cannot be affected by opposite tension, you can use co-contraction exercises, using VRT or DVR.

Bob50

Does all your training consist of self-resistance exercise with a stick? Also, what kind of exercises/movements do you perform?

I like your stick design. I've created a few implements for isometrics myself using steel piping. I think I'll make a stick using your design.

Thanks, Ddmoates. I believe you will get great results. The stick workout is effective and safe for older people.

Got myself a a stick and I'm enjoying training wth it. Just basic stuff. Thanks to Bob50.

Last addition. If someone will be interesting to make the stick with two T ends for self-resistance exercises, the optimal length of this T-stick should be equal to the distance from the floor to your navel. It will work. If you feel that 3/4" PVC pipe is flexible for some strength exercises, put inside a piece of wood or the handle from old 99 cents broom (it fits to the pipe inside diameter) or use 1'' pipe.

I get a pump using isometric weightliftng exercise. Plus I like using a faux barbell & dummbells, but usually I just use visualized resistance and even a belt sometimes.

I would like to add that these self-resistance exercises are accompanied by high levels of muscle pumping that may also contribute to muscle growth: https://www.muscleforlife.com/muscle-pump/

I use a five foot red oak fighting (Yes active in martial arts) as a barbell and two new red oak reflexology foot rollers about 10" long as dumbbells; but not each time I workout. I like the feel of something in my hands for isometric weight lifting but usually use nothing.

Ddmoates,

I think that the optimal stick length would be in the range when you hold a stick close to the chest and can completely bend one hand and straighten another hand. I am 6’ 2” and ~3.5’-4' stick fits me. You can use both a simple stick and the stick with T-like ends (see pictures 1 and 2). T-stick is a more universal tool and you can design more self-resistance exercises to involve different muscle groups, including your legs and back muscles.

I believe that self-resistance training with a stick could have its value for old blokes for long time. We can gain:

1. Strength, muscle mass, and endurance without joint and spinal injuries

2. Flexibility

3. Good mind-muscle connection/coordination

4. Strong hand grip for handgun shooting

5. Effective self-defense training

I train with a stick for ~1 year and, I believe, with good results.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. I will be happy to answer.

Wood.

3/4" PVC pipe.

Bob50, MikeNY and Michael; gentlemen, thanks or taking the time to educate me. Its vey much appeciated. I've got a stick and went through the program Bob50 sent me last evening. Definitely felt the results this A.M. Going to look for a bigger stick as what I have is only 25 inchs long. Something will turn up. Bob50, another question: I gather from your excellent commentary that the purpose of the stick is to primarily enhance the mind/muscle connection, and that once that goal is attained the stick is no longer used. Am I getting this right? Or does stick training have an enduring value in and of itself for strength and muscular development? Finally, you're a youngster of 68, eh? Next month I hit 74. Its great to see our older guys, with their experience and enduring commitment to fitness still active and contributing their knowledge and insights.

Using a stick seems to allow you to focus better. When I tried Isometric Weigtlifting again as an adult, witout the stick did not seem to work for me. Once I was back in the groove it worked just as well without a stick. Using 80% sounds like you were building muscle.

PS: https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=SbrzWp6rIYu15gLdj5-QAQ&q=lifting+80%25+builds+muscle&oq=lifting+80%25+builds+muscle&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i22i29i30k1l2.4836.36794.0.37167.51.46.4.0.0.0.196.5465.7j39.46.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.43.4938...0j0i131k1j0i131i46k1j46i131k1j0i3k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1j33i160k1j33i21k1.0.TWJsR_C9p9c

Hi Ddmoates,

Yes, a stick may be a simple and effective tool for strength and muscle gaining. Factually, you apply the opposite self resistance (SR) to different muscle groups, having only a stick in your hands and performing dynamic tension exercises. To explain this principle, I repeat the part of my early post. Maybe these exercises would be interesting for you if you did not see them. I will be 68 years old next month. I love these exercises and perform them 5 or 6 times per week.

1. Biceps pushing. Take a stick by two hands and hold it close to the chest. Push the stick to left side, tensing only right biceps and resisting by the left biceps. Keeping SR, move through the full ROM to left. Then push the stick to right side, tensing only left biceps and resisting by the right one. Keeping SR, move through the full ROM to right. Repeat pushing to right-left sides with ~constant SR until feeling the light pain in the both biceps. It is one set. Rest is 15-30 sec with 1 or 2 deep breathes.

2 Triceps pulling. Take a stick by two hands and hold it close to the chest. Pull the stick to left side, tensing only left triceps and resisting by the right one. Move through the full ROM to left. Then pull the stick to right side, tensing only right triceps and resisting by the left one. Again move through the full ROM to right. Repeat pulling to right-left sides until feeling the light pain in the both triceps. It is one set. Rest is 15-30 sec with 1 or 2 deep breathes.

3. Deltoid muscle pulling. Take a stick by two hands and hold it close to your hips (forward). Pull the stick to left, tensing only left deltoid muscle and resisting by the right deltoid muscle. Keeping SR, elevate your left hand above your head (full ROM). Then pull the stick to right side, tensing only right deltoid muscle and resisting by the left one. Keeping SR, elevate your right hand above your head (full ROM). Repeat pulling to right-left sides until feeling the light pain in both deltoid muscles. It is one set. Rest is 15-30 sec with 1 or 2 deep breathes. You can also use forward and backward circular movements with SR to develop different deltoid muscle fibers (movements like kayak paddling).

4. Latissimus dorsi muscles pulling. Take a stick by two hands and raise it above your head. Pull the stick to left, tensing only left latissimus dorsi and resisting by only right latissimus dorsi. Keeping SR, move through the full ROM to left. Then pull the stick to right side, tensing only right latissimus dorsi and resisting by the left one. Again, move through the full ROM. Repeat pulling to right-left sides until feeling the light pain in both latissimus dorsi muscles. It is one set. Rest is 15-30 sec, 1 or 2 deep breathes. You can also use circular movements with SR to develop more latissimus dorsi muscle fibers (movements like kayak paddling).

5. Pectoralis muscles pushing. Take a stick by two hands and straighten both arms at the chest level. Push the stick to left side, tensing only right pectoralis and resisting by the left pectoralis (use the full ROM). Then push the stick to right side, tensing only left pectoralis and resisting by the right one (use the full ROM). Repeat pushing to right-left sides with constant SR until feeling the light pain in both pectoralis muscles. It is one set. Rest is 15-30 sec, 1 or 2 deep breathes. You can also use circular movements with SR to develop different pectoralis muscle fibers (movements like kayak paddling).

6. Trapezius muscle pulling. Take a stick by two hands and straighten both arms at the chest level. Pull the stick to left side, tensing only left trapezius and resisting by right trapezius. Move through the full ROM to left. Then pull the stick to right side, tensing only right trapezius and resisting by the left trapezius. Move through the full ROM to right. Repeat pulling to right-left sides until feeling the light pain in both trapezius muscles. It is one set. Rest is 15-30 sec, 1 or 2 deep breathes.

This principle of the opposite self-resistance we can apply to any movements with sticks, which we can find on the internet sites.

Notes: Try to keep tension in working muscles >50% max. Perform 3-6 sets for each exercise. The number of reps is not important. Important criterion of sufficient loading is burning or light pain in working muscles. These exercises may be performed as a circuit.

P.S. 1. You can put 2 PVC T connectors on the ends of a 3-4 feet stick for your more convenient hand position. T-like ends also allow addition of different exercises.

2. Recently, Greg posted a PDF of the interesting book "Ropercise" by Billy Van. You can perform some exercises from this book, using a stick. The stick allows us to do also concentric movements with SR.

To MikeNY and Bob50: what is the point or advantage of training with a 3 t 5 foot stick? I'm not trying to be critical or negative at all - just looking for information and understanding. I get that it can help with flexibility and stretching but I seem to remember you guys using them for strength, quickness and muscular development. Maybe I'm not reading your posts right? Thanks.

Well said MichaelS and many know the Mind-Muscle connection andit 's importance. One aide to Isometric Weight Lifting/VRT is using the mind, like a five foot long staff but know it is a barbell and also two wooden Reflexology footrollers as dumbbells. Feel the weight and it becomes real, and you no longer need the aids then.

John I have used this in the past with pretty good results. Everyone is going to have differant opinions on how to do it and it's limitations. This is not a knock on what Bob said but my personal opinion his first limitation is his opinion. You can use it like bodybuilders use it to build muscle. Some use periodization; differant set, rep, schemes, ect.....

Bob's second point is very interesting. No expert but I would say Yes and No. I would say for the joints maybe but the connective tissue I disagree. I personally preferred higher reps with VRT which I feel worked best for me. But everyone has to find what is right for them. No matter what kind of training we do, if there is no mind/muscle connection You won't build muscle. John keep us up to date on what You do and Your results.

Thank you MikeNY and Bob50

I always like to hear about other's training experiences and real world results.

Personally, I'm intrigued by the idea of using this type of training to supplement my regular workouts. I like the idea that I can stimulate the muscles w/out putting any additional strain on the joints or connective tissue.

John,

I practiced this method, sometimes named VTR, DVR, co-contraction, for several years. It has two limitations. First, it is very difficult to reach the voluntary muscle co-contraction/co-tension more than 40-80% of max. So, you will get a plateau after some period of training. Overcoming this plateau is difficult. You need to use different tricks for that. The second limitation is more important. The lack of external resistance does not train sufficiently joint structures and connective tissue. In this case, the muscles strength could be fine, but untrained joints may be easy injured. Therefore, I've switched to self-resistance exercises that use external resistance.

John.Purvis78 you gain strong, lean muscle like 1950's Boxers using Isometric Weightlifting exercises, and strength. Plus using boxing exercises builds speed, endurance and makes you safer in life, boxing works in real life. Old fasioned bare knuckle boxing used the Palm heels, edege of the hand, elbows and forearms to strike with, plus some kicked and knee'ed

I'll be honest, even though I had read about this type of training on the Transformetrics forum for years, I never really gave it much thought or consideration. I could see some benefit to be gained (train the neural grooves, stimulate some blood flow, etc.), but I never really considered that it would be something that could actually build muscle.

But recently I came across this study (https://bretcontreras.com/do-we-even-need-to-lift/), where participants actually induced hypertrophy with such methods. Needless to say I am intrigued and have started experimenting with it.

Have any of the forum members who practice this type of training gained any muscle mass and/or carry over strength?

Ddmoates,

If you really want to extend your exercise skill for your defense at your age, do self-resistance exercises with a cane and add some cane fighting techniques from internet. Train daily and you will can defense yourself in many life situations. We discussed this theme before at the old Lionquest forum, but, unfortunately, these posts disappeared.

MikeNY that's the kind of thing I'm interested in. I'm a old guy now and I remmber those guys from the ffties and sixties: Basilio,Fullmer, Benvenuti, Liston et. al . Did some backyard sparring myself but had no idea how to train. Thought heavy weights wre the answer - they weren't. I did lean howver that middleweights have no businss in the ring with heavyweights, lo!!

I've read the early weight lifter's used very light dumbbells (by modern standards) and internal resistance; we'd call it Isometrics. Ali was a great Boxer, you were lucky to meet him. Some of the old fashioned Boxing Training were Isometrics; Boxers would press thier gloved hand against a wall in the 1950s to build strength and striking power. My uncle trained boxers to use Isometric weight lifting exercises to build lean muscle; and others saw the same in the same in the 1950s & 1960s.

MikeNY; could be. Vince Lombardi got the Packers on isos in the mid 60s but that's the only instance I'm aware of. Mantle wouldn't have been on steroids unless it came in a 90 proof bottle of Jack Daniels. I read somewhere a long time ago that Muhammad Ali used isos in his locker room so that no one would see his "strength program" but I've never seen that in a publication since. I met him while he was training for the second Liston fight. A large guy.

ddmoates29 I was thinking about what you wrote; maybe those baseball players were using Isometrics? I know early weight lifters used light weight dumbbells and internal tension as resistance.

Do what you can do at your age to have health, pleasure, strength, good mood, muscles and flexibility of your body. If you've found that, follow that. These are right criteria for me. Dynamic/isometric SR exercises with a stick work for me, and I do not care about any records and competitions.

MIKENY and anyone else interested; one of the things that has always interested me is the extent of strength transference from isometrics, or for that matter bodyweight cals to competitive sports. For example in baseball back in the 60s you had relatively small guys who hit the ball for distances not reached very often even today by players who are much stronger. Examples would be Dick Allen and Jimmy Wynn both of whom hit bells further than almost anyone, even today. Mickey Mantle came closer to hitting a fair ball out of Yankee stadium than anyone else ever has - the ball hit the right field facade 18 inches below the top. It was still rising. Babe Ruth hit what is believed to be the longest ball of them all in 1927 in a preseason game in 1927 - 620 feet. Wynn, Allen and Mantle were all under six feet tall, and weighed 190 - 195. Ruth was 6' 2", not a big man by today's standards but his strength training was confined to beer and women. None of these guys had even heard of isometrics. I understand too that this is a near impossible issue to resolve, as technique and balance are involved as well as strength enhanced by isos and regular strength training. Tyson hit hard, but certainly wasn't big or exceptionally physically strong; Marciano was strong but trained endurance more than strength. So - isos and cals help for sure, but its hard to say how much. Apparently it varies from one athlete and sport to other athletes and other sports. Maybe I'll just go hit some isos with my Snyder Isometric Exersiser. Can't hurt, and for me its fun.

I think everyone interested in Isometric Weightlifting exercise should get a copy of Greg Mangan's VRT book! No gym or weight set needed and it works. My friend's, one a former weightlifter uses a five foot staff as a barbell and 10" reflexology foot rollers as dumbbells and the other uses the book "The Power of 10" and does super slow once per week using VRT. A female friend got the VRT book and is thinking about using it.

I like Atlas Isometric Weightlifting exercises and it works as well as regular weightlifting exercises, just no weight set.

Yes I believe you answered it. How have your results been for you personally? Using the vrt

harwellzk4 wasn't sure if the question was for me. What do you mean by dynamic vrt or static? I think you mean weightlifting exercises done wit movement for dynamic; yes I use movement for weightlifting exercises done using Isometric tension. But my uncle trained Boxers to push their gloved fist against a wall using Isometric resistance to build strength, and punching power and I use that.

Do you do dynamic vrt or statics only with the faux weight implements?

ddmoates29 I know you will enjoy that Synder Isometric Exerciser, I do also. My Uncle trained Professional Boxers, he taught them fitness, advanced technique and style; in his Gym.

MikeNY, I meant to ask you in my paragraph above if you would expand a bit on the training your uncle did with boxers back in the fifties. I remember the fighters from those days - Marciano, Archie Moore vs. Durelle etc. I'm asking just out of general interest in those guys but also because they seemed to be better conditioned than many of the fighters of today. Of course when you had to go 15 rounds instead of just 12 you had better be in the best position strength and endurance wise that you could be. An example was Carmen Basilio. Thank you sir for any descriptions or thoughts you have on this, or points you remember.

I got one of the Snyder Exercisers a few weeks ago and am very pleased with it. Got it on MikeNY's recommendation. I did iso work back in the 60s but got away from it. Won't make that mistake again. So now BW and bands MWF and isos TuThS. I notice that I can slot the isos in three days a week without overtraining with the isos - 10 minutes or so. BW and bands need a rest day before hitting them again, but the isos don't tire me out for the next day, or I should say that they don't if the iso work is kept to 10 minutes. To be fair I haven't tried getting more out of the isos than 10 minutes so maybe I could do more. We'll see.

Definetlly alot of stuff one can do to make little changes to spice things up.

MichaelS you are so right! One friend is now doing super slow isometric weightlifting exercises using "The Power of 10" book a 10/10 method and another friend uses a 5' wood bar as a faux barbell and two new wooden foot rollers as faux dumbbells, he was a weightlifter before.

MikeNY I think it's good to change up once in awhile. I think it was Marlon Birch I heard say this, " Your body geta use to a workout within three weeks". A change can do a body good.

I might use the "super slow" method again in the future, the 10/5 method!

I tried the various "super slow" methods, 10/10, 10/5 and 30/30/30 with Isometric Weightlifting. I prefer regular Isometric Weight Lifting exercises (aka VRT)! Just my opinion.

Michael I like the regular version of Isometric Weightlifting exercises, but am curious about the super slow method. I've read about and am checking it out.

You answered it before. I like hearing how people make this stuff work for them. That's all interesting stuff Mike. I have seen those isometric trainers, very simple but effective.

I like using light dumbbells sometimes for my workouts. Also when I do isometric workouts I like using an isometric strap. Let me know what you conclude from the super slow stuff. How long do you plan on using it?

Michael, noticed I did not answer your question; yes I workout 3 days per week, usually Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

For beginners I've found that using a wooden faux barbell and wooden dumbbells makes it easier for them to learn Isometric Weightlifting aka VRT. I also sometimes like to use my red oak fighting staff as a barbell.

I've been experimenting with super slow as taught in the book "The Power of 10" and by Elllington Darden.

Michael I do regular workouts (wide grip pullup, bench press, squat, curl, military press, rows and deadlift) and love walking; also do Isometrics.

There is an alternative to Isometric Weightlifting exercise and Weightlifting; I use a Snyder Isometric Exerciser also. There are 3 different Isometric exercisers from the 1960's, the Bob Hoffman Strength Builder (the most expensive), the Mickey Mantle 1 Minute a Day Gym and the Snyder Isometric Exerciser. All 3 still sell online (usually ebay) I bought the Snyder as a teen, and had a expensive weight set; and preferred the Snyder. It is two steel pipes, one a short barbell and the other a flattened foot bar connected by a nylon rope, and using a slip knot on the barbell to adjust length. Weightlifting exercises were used, some guys used 1 rep, some 3 to 5 reps and some used 3 with slightly different angles.

I recently bought a new Snyder on Ebay, and bought several for family at great prices, google it and shop around; I bought several Mickey Mantle 1 Minute Gyms to for family at good prices.

Mike you do a full body workout on all three days right? Do you do any kind of cardio or intervals?